Here are the cover scans and issue summaries for the Jeph Loeb-Tim Sale miniseries from Marvel. The attached analyses are by DC message boarder obiwanjm, or Jared Michalski.
Webmaster's note: these stories are adaptations of the original Lee/Romita issues of Amazing Spiderman 40-49. They are reprinted in Essential Spiderman Vols. 2 and 3.
Book One: MY FUNNY VALENTINE
Summary: It is Valentine's Day in the present, and Spiderman is headed towards the top of the Brooklyn Bridge. Every Valentine's Day, he tells us in his narration, he wishes that he could talk to the girl who was his first love: Gwen Stacy, and so he is recording himself talking to her in case someday there is someone who should know about their relationship. He tells her that every year on Valentine's Day Spiderman goes to the top of the Brooklyn Bridge, the place of her death, in honor of her. And as he does so he leaves her a bright red rose. His thoughts then drift back to the time when he and Gwen first fell in love and how it all began...
The Green Goblin has unmasked Spiderman and found out his true identity as Peter Parker. Now that he knows who Spiderman is, he plans to kill him. But as Peter is tied up and defenseless, he keeps the villain off guard by talking about his real life as Norman Osborn, and his son Harry. Peter uses the diversion to escape from his bonds and go on the offensive, attacking the Goblin. The Goblin throws a pumpkin bomb at Spiderman, but he catches it with his webbing and hurls it back at the Goblin. When it explodes next to him, the building catches fire and the Goblin is knocked unconscious. But when the villain awakens, Norman Osborn is confused and doesn't recognize the costume. Spiderman realizes he has amnesia and doesn't remember either his identity as the Green Goblin or Spiderman's true identity. Spiderman then carries Norman out of the building and tells the firefighters outside that Norman helped him fight off the Goblin and that the Goblin is dead.
In the offices of the Daily Bugle, J. Jonah Jameson looks over photos that Peter Parker took of the fight and fumes with hatred for the wallcrawler. When Peter tries to get paid right away for the photos, Jameson tells him he will have to wait. However, Robbie Robertson tells Jonah that they need a photographer to get a photo of Norman Osborn in the hospital, and as Peter knows Norman's son Harry from school, he volunteers under the condition that he get paid for the photo right away. When Peter arrives at the hospital, Harry is there and the two of them bond over the lack of parental figures in their lives. Peter leaves just as Flash Thompson arrives with Gwen Stacy in tow.
At home Peter discusses his desire for a motorcycle with Aunt May, who after some initial reluctance gives him the money. Peter is himself reluctant when he gets to the motorcycle shop, but he decides to go for it when Flash, Harry and Gwen pass the shop at that moment. Later that day he arrives at school on the bike and shows it off to the gang. Flash makes some disparaging comments but Gwen hops on and the two ride off together. But while he is out with Gwen Stacy, Peter is missing another opportunity as a silhouetted figure comes to his front door in search of him and Aunt May had to turn this girl away.
Thoughts: Well, another Jeph and Tim mini debuts, which means it's time for me to get back into over-analytical mode.
I found the first issue enjoyable. Jeph hit the right spots with his captions, which I thought were superb. The first six pages especially were superb, on both Jeph and Tim's part. However, I had trouble with some of the art over the remaining pages. Tim was definitely channeling Ditko and Romita Sr. here, and as great an artist as both of those two were, I'm not a fan of the style. I know J&T are telling stories set within a run of the original Amazing issues, so I'm sure it was a conscious decision to emulate the look of that period, but for me, it just didn't work. While I truly loved the timeless quality DD: Yellow had, I could not relate to seeing Peter at the Bugle in a sportcoat and tie, or Harry's green suit with bow tie.
But enough of that, I'll get into the specifics of what I liked and disliked.
I thought page one was a great intro to the series. Jeph has a way of penning a well turned phrase with witty use of words and phrases, and his "Kind of amazing" line was just such an example. And Tim did a wonderful job of introducing you to his version of the hero. Dynamic and engaging, my initial concerns over Tim's Spidey were quickly forgotten. Although not as extreme a close-up as the first page of DD:Y, this page certainly mirrored that one, as it brings you up close and personal with the hero and his thoughts. Which is fitting considering how both series deal with the same theme of a lost love one.
Wow. The following two page spread was just beautiful, and Tim's work on the bridge was amazing. Following the pattern set out in DD:Y, this two page spread establishes the hero and his relationship with NYC. It also creates a sense of environment and emotion, as the hero swings alone in his city, lost in his thoughts about a time when he wasn't so alone. It's also worth noting that Steve Buccellato's subtle blue coloring creates the same feeling for the opening pages that was created by the grey tones used in the opening to DD:Y.
The symmetry between the two in all these elements is a nice touch for loyal J&T readers. And it continues on the next two pages, as we leave the splash pages behind and enter into some emotional panels that find our hero in a place that holds great significance for him. While with DD it was the gym his father spent so much time in, here we see Spidey return to the scene of what one could argue was his greatest loss, even more so than that of Uncle Ben.
As much as I loved the opening splash pages, I thought these two pages were the best in the entire issue. Anyone who's ever been in love can feel the weight of Jeph's words on page four, and there's a truly cinematic feel to following the descent of the rose. But what I liked most was the symbolism of the rose, for as soon as it comes into our awareness, it is thrown off the bridge by a force beyond it's control (in this case, the wind) and plummets down to the water and its demise, a thing of beauty who's time was too short in this world. The rose being the only thing in color in the drab blue world was another wonderful piece of symbolism. These are subtle touches which some readers may not even be aware of, but anyone who knows what the story of Peter and Gwen holds in store can't help but being moved by these pages.
[Steve's note: don't miss the issue's title appearing in Peter's narration on page 5.]
Ah page six. Now that was a truly impressive introduction to the Green Goblin. Close-up and in your face, those large eyes and massive eyebrows just screamed malevolence and evil. Jeph's captions help to place you into the context of what is going on, and I assume for long time readers establishes a sense of where this flashback would begin in the Amazing Spiderman run. [Steve's note: That would be issue 40, and the dialogue here is very similar to some on page 6 of THAT issue.]
However, it's at this point the art, for me, starts to go awry. After the wonderful symbolism of pages four and five and the great introduction of the Goblin, we pull back into a series of long shots which show the Goblin to be this skinny masked man riding a glider.
Now I admit, my experience with the original Goblin is slim. I grew up reading about the Hobgoblin, and I remember how that costume was so mysterious and terrifying. And as I got older, Venom came along to scare the crap out of me. But as Tim pulled back to reveal the Goblin as half the size of Peter, who boasts a Vin Diesel like physique, I couldn't help but think, this is the terror of Peter's early career?
And the subsequent fight scene didn't help, as the Goblin pranced around with his Dr. Seussian hat flailing wildly. The constant use of long shots didn't help him appear any more dangerous. Spidey dispathced him as if he were a common buffoon. If this is the story of Peter and Gwen, of which the Goblin plays such a large role, I just felt this experience with him didn't fit into the tragic nature of what is to come. [Steve's note: To be fair, in the original it made GG out to be even more of a buffoon when he was defeated. Rather than Spidey throwing a pumpkin bomb back at him, GG stumbled back into some live wires that had fallen during the melee into some chemicals he had been mixing.]
Then we head off to the bugle. Good call on the Sheldon reference VB. [Note from Steve: the reference is to Phil Sheldon, the photographer who acts as protagonist and narrator in Kurt Busiek and Alex Ross's seminal work Marvels, the fourth part of which deals specifically with Sheldon witnessing Gwen Stacy's death.] I wouldn't have picked up on it. That was a great touch on Jeph's part. I loved Tim's Robbie, but his Jonah didn't do it for me. And as I said before, Peter dressed up in coat and tie felt awkward.
I did like the effect created by the establishing shot of Spidey swinging over the Bugle, and then swinging over Memorial Hospital as he goes out on his assignment.
And then we get Gwen's introduction. The four static panels on top would under other circumstance be pretty ho-hum visually. But they serve to set up the close-up introduction to Gwen, who has a very seductive temptress look with those big arched eyebrows.
I'm not sure how I feel about Tim's rendition here. I've never read the Gwen Stacy saga, I just know how it ends. So my only real experience with her is in Marvels, where she came off as wholesome and lovely. Although Tim portays her as very beautiful, there's a tinge of the sinister in her smirk which I'm not sure I like.
Aunt May. Tim stays true to how she's always been portrayed, but I wish he hadn't. It's painful to look at her, so gaunt and drawn out is her skin.
Another nice establishing shot with a small Spidey swinging over Al's Motorcycle Shop. I liked the scene between the gang and Peter with his new bike. Some nice dialogue. But I found the full page splash of Peter taking Gwen for a ride to be pretty static and visually an uninteresting camera angle. I did like Tim's Gwen here though, holding tight to Peter, and looking a little more young and wholesome, lost in the moment as she was.
[Note from Steve: apparently the motorcycle was originally a color other than red and first appeared red due to a coloring error in issue 45 of the original ASM run. Also the dialogue on p. 21 mentioned the "Silver Spoon," which was featured in several issues of the original run around this time period and was kind of the gang's hangout a la Al's on Happy Days or the Max on Saved by the Bell... yes that was just a Saved by the Bell reference. Admit it, you used to think Screech was funny.]
And finally, I liked the decision to keep MJ as a silhouette on the last page. It's nice symbolism that in our introduction to her, she's not a clear part of the picture, but by being introduced at the very end of the first issue, we know she will become a clear part by the end, and in Peter's future all together.
Book Two: LET'S FALL IN LOVE
Summary: Spiderman is reading a copy of the latest Daily Bugle off the newsstand, too engrossed in the front page story on the "death" of the Green Goblin to notice the newsvendor angrily accosting him. Finally the vendor interrupts his reading and tells him to pay for the paper or he'll call the police. Spidey pays and then swings away, just as a large shadowy figure comes up to the stand. The vendor is about to harrass this man also, but when he catches sight of this large man (whose appearance is hid from us in the shadows), he fearfully tells the man the paper is on the house. This shadowy figure reads the same story Spiderman just finished and grumbles an ominous threat against the wall-crawler.
At college the next day, Peter muses about how his relationship with Harry Osborn has been growing while he's been checking up on Norman to make sure the Green Goblin personality remains dormant. One side benefit of this newfound friendship is that it's also bringing him closer to Gwen Stacy. In fact, in the chemistry class they have together, Gwen first flirts with Peter, then suggests they meet for a study date. But as they're finalizing their plans, Gwen and Peter are interrupted by Flash Thompson, who harrasses Peter. And when Peter speaks up to defend himself, the professor tells him to concentrate on his work instead of socializing.
Later that day, while the Rhino awaits in a jail cell under the influence of a knockout gas, the shadowy figure from the newsstand appears and sets the Rhino free. At the Daily Bugle to try to squeeze blood from the stone that is J. Jonah Jameson, Robbie Robertson tells Peter he'll deal with Jonah while Peter goes to get some shots of the Rhino's breakout. Spiderman reluctantly decides to battle this villain, even though the Rhino is twice his size, because he needs the money the photographs will bring to take Gwen Stacy out. The shadowy figure watches from a nearby rooftop as the Rhino and Spiderman exchange blows and witty remarks, until Spiderman tricks the Rhino into knocking a building over on top of himself.
Spiderman leaves the Rhino with the police as he goes to have a piece of the Rhino's hide analyzed by Dr. Curt Connors. Connors of course is the one-armed scientist who, in trying to develop a formual to restore his missing arm, transformed himself into the Lizard. He sent his wife and son off to Florida after he returned to normal, just in case the mutation came back, but is now feeling confident they can return home. Spiderman suggests the doctor try a specific chemical reaction on the Rhino's hide, mirroring a statement Gwen had made to him in class earlier that day. But in order to create this reaction, Dr. Connors will have to come in contact with the same formula that changed him originally. It is a risk he's willing to take in order to stop the villain and potentially save lives.
The Rhino breaks free from under the rubble just as Spiderman returns to the scene, firing his trademark webbing, albeit orange in color, at the villain. After covering the Rhino in the composition, Spiderman allows himself to get knocked into a fire hydrant nearby. When the water from the hydrant is released, it splashes on the Rhino and dissolves his hyde. Spiderman is able finish him off with relative ease, but unbeknownst to Spiderman, the foreboding shadowy figure is still looming over the scene, watching and waiting.
That night Peter returns home and dresses quickly to go meet Gwen for their date. But Aunt May stops him at the bottom of the stairs to tell him how nice he looks, wondering why he went to all this trouble just to meet the niece of the old lady next door. Peter stops in his tracks, worried about what kind of girl his old-fashioned aunt is trying to fix him up with. As Peter is hoping he can get out of there quickly and that Gwen will understand if he's a little late, Aunt May opens the door to reveal the silhouetted girl from the end of issue one, a drop-dead gorgeous redhead named Mary Jane Watson.
Thoughts: LOVED the opening splash. It had a little bit of everything. J&T open with this great shot of a Daily Bugle paper, an object forever linked to Spidey. I love how the paper is upside down and colored in a muted grey, with Spidey's thumb in bright red creeping in on the corner of the page, hinting at the image to come on the next page. Plus, the irony of Spidey staring at his greatest nemesis on the cover of the paper that in a way has also become one of his greatest enemies is priceless. And the irony is made all the more biting knowing that Peter stares at an image of his most dangerous villain that he himself took, on the black and white nemesis that he himself works for.
And after that great set-up, we get the payoff. The resulting two page spread just screams atmosphere. Without needlessly cluttering up the page, Tim manages to ground the story and us readers into the NYC environment. [Note from Steve: And in case you care, Button World is NOT a real magazine. :) ] And he manages to sneak in the shadowy figure in the subway tunnel too. It's also interesting to note how colorist Steve Buccellato emulates the look of Dark Victory in the coloring of distant skyscrapers. And I would be remiss if I didn't mention Jeph's amazing job of shifting gears from somberness to comedy in the mere turn of a page without any abrupt shift in feel.
They quickly shift gear again on page four, creating a sense of mystery and impending danger with the introduction of the silhouetted figure. I love this aspect, as the mystery figure is a lost art these days in comics, and evokes the feel of the timeframe J&T are trying to emulate. It creates a sense of curiosity and a desire to know that keeps us chomping at the bit to get to subsequent issues and have the mystery solved. And the bit qith the quarter was priceless.
(As to the shadowy figure's identity, my money's on Kraven. I'm guessing he's pitting opponents against Spidey to get a sense of how best to hunt him. I also think the fur collar on the coat is reminiscent of Kraven's animal skin vest. [Steve: Additionally, in issue 47 of the original run, Kraven is depicted in a flashback reading a newspaper with the exact same headline as this one.])
"Do you like what you see?" After yet another shift in mood, we're taken to the budding interaction between Gwen and Peter with that classic line and image. I absolutely loved the dialogue on this page. The reaction when a catalyst is added to two polymers is dripping with subtext, and stands as a perfect metaphor for so many of the changing relationships in this series. And Peter's response that at this point, he's not sure what to expect, might as well be Peter speaking for the reader and his feelings about where this mini-series is headed, as J&T add multiple catalysts in this issue. Great stuff.
[Note from Steve: Page 5 has a periodic table... and yes, I AM so anal that I checked it for mistakes. It's surprisingly accurate except for: where it says Ta next to Peter's head should be Ti... and the row with elements 104-107 (that's starting with Rf) is just completely wrong. But then again as I recall from my high school chemistry class, these elements move and are named different things according to who you ask, so we'll give Tim the benefit of the doubt here.]
Page six was laced with great visuals packed with meaning. That first panel focusing on Gwen was great, with Peter barely in the panel showing how Pete is just starting to come into Gwen's world. It emphasizes the transition Jeph mentions in that first panel caption. Meanwhile, the next two panels show how, even though Gwen is trying to Bring Peter into her world, Tim's visuals show how there's still the gap between them. The second panel on the page shows Gwen caught between Flash and Peter, her old crew and the man she wants to be with, and although it's subtle, Gwen still is closer to Flash, as Peter is more towards the foreground while Gwen is more towards the background with Flash. And the third panel literally emphasizes how they're still on different sides. And that last panel is cruel humor, as the Professor chastises the prize science pupil for talking to the "social club" he's not yet a part of. Brilliant story-telling.
Page 7 continues with the visual distancing, but shifts slightly in the second panel, as for the first time, Gwen looks set apart from Flash. Also note the color change from bright, pale yellow to moody purple in the last panel. It's a very striking change, and I'm not sure what it's meant to signify.[Steve: And don't miss the issue's title in Peter's narration again.]
[Note from Steve: Kelly Tindall had one addition to the commentary on this scene: "a lovely little scene, and then [Jeph had] to go and add Miles Warren, The Jackal...although it occurred to me that his lust after Gwen is what sent him after Spider-Man, so maybe he's a good fit in there, too."]
Pages 8 and 9 serve to progress the story to the Spider-man vs. Rhino battle, but not without bringing back the mystery figure who, for reasons yet to be determined, wants the battle to happen. [Steve: These events involving the Rhino's escape from jail, which he originally did by himself, occurred in the original run both on page 7 of issue 42 AND again in the first few pages of issue 43. Oh and why was Rhino in jail in the first place? Because he tried to kidnap a space-spore affected John Jameson (Jonah's astronaut son) in issue 41.] Jeph also manages to serve up some classic J. Jonah Jameson.
Tim's only mistake in my opinion came on his first, full shot of the Rhino on page 10. Literally centered in the middle of that scene of destruction is a man who looks like a rotund midget in a rhinoceros suit. The panel just didn't give the impression of size and power that one associate's with The Rhino. After all, they do later mention him in the same breath as the Hulk.
Tim quickly makes up for it as Spidey swings into the fight in the next panel, followed by a great long shot panel to start page 11. I like how the mystery figure looks down on the scene he set in motion. I loved the action on page 12. Very cinematic, with a nice sense of flow and size that emphasized the difference in styles between the two fighters.
[Historical note from Steve: the Rhino originally brought the house down in issue 43 on page 12... and we saw in the original that he had escaped getting buried.]
The two page sequence (on pgs 14-15) with Dr. Connors was a nice touch. [Note from Steve: Actually, give credit to Stan the Man for this, since it happened in the original issue (43) too, on page 15.] By bringing him into this issue, it serves as a nice piece of foreshadowing, leaving one to believe that The Lizard will make an appearance before this mini-series ends. Tim does a great job in the second panel of giving us as establishing shot of the Doc's working environment, and Steve Buccellato did a nice job of coloring it to look like a very sterile environment. I've begun to notice how Tim crams in so much visual information into his establishing shots, so that subsequent panels in a sequence can have little to no background and it goes by unnoticeable. I also liked Buccellato's coloring job on the photograph of Connor's family which dominates the closing panel of the sequence. Definite sepia feel.
Tim does a good job of mixing up the pace on the second go round of the battle while also giving us a good glimpse of Spidey's agility. And I like how the closing panel once again brings us face to silhouette with the mystery figure who set the battle up in the first place. That way the lasting impression is not of the battle, but of this shadowed enigma perched above.
[Note from Steve: Although later stories made the Rhino's costume permanent, the dissolve on his costume here is not a continuity gaff. Here's what Jeph himself had to say on the matter:It may have been later that the Rhino's costume wouldn't come off (as did the Scorpion's costume remain permanant after a few years) but at this time (ref: Spider-Man Vol. 1, #43) that's what happened.And since he's the writer, we'll take his word for it. :) A further note though is that, in that original issue, this final battle took place both inside and outside of the hospital where John Jameson was recovering, the Rhino still trying to accomplish his task of kidnapping the astronaut even though the space spore's effects wore off by the end of issue 42.]
And what can I say about the Mary Jane introduction sequence. J&T do a fantastic job of making you wait for the full page splash payoff. First with a six panel sequence, which for Tim, really is an above average panel count for one page. And then with the three panel page that serves as a slow reveal, giving you the eyes first, Peter's shocked expression second, and then the lush, full lips before hitting you with the splash page introduction of MJ. Face it, we all just hit the jackpot, because Tim's MJ is a stunning beauty, and I think even more attractive than Gwen. [Steve: By the by, the jackpot comment is verbatim from the original, although it actually occurred at the end of issue 42, before any of the events of the Rhino's attack depicted in the rest of the issue.] J&T have put themselves in quite a pickle telling the love story of Gwen and Peter and then throwing in this vision. Jeph himself states it with his last caption when he says MJ's introduction would mean Gwen wouldn't understand at all." I look forward to seeing where they take it.
Obiwanjm also had the following to say about the general feel of the series thus far: I am thoroughly enjoying this series. It's J&T doing what they do best, telling a year one story with heart. However, it isn't grabbing me as much as J&T's other projects have. I think this is because of two things.
One, it doesn't feel fresh or new, as I've become accustomed to seeing with each new J&T mini. And while it's not fair to saddle J&T with the expectations of having to create a fresh and unique angle and look for each new project, Blue very much has a flavor of DD:Y, substituting a tape recorder for a love letter. Coming immediately on the heels of DD:Y exagerates their similarities.
Two, I prefer a running storyline, a la the murder mystery in TLH and DV. The flashback issues are nice, but to me rest on Jeph's uncanny ability to provoke an emotional response in the reader. And while Jeph has done a masterful job tugging the heart strings in both DD:Y and now Blue, I prefer a constant storyline, a la the murder mystery in TLH and DV.
Anyway, that's just my opinion.
And to those comments, Jeph himself responded: To address the "mystery vs.love letter" of it all -- this is another way to tell a story. SUPERMAN FOR ALL SEASONS has no real "plot". It's an observation piece and as such, some folks thought it was the definitive Superman story and others thought that Brainiac and Luthor should have teamed up for a slugfest. Batman, by nature, has mystery elements in them -- but the original Halloween Specials were more slices of life and those kinds of stories are both harder to write (for me) and personally, I prefer them (again in the 99 versus 100 department). When a story hangs on the PLOT, it might be more satisfying for the reader, but you run the risk they hate the plot (after three years of Superman Monthly, I heard about THAT enough) -- but character-character-character is the core of the books Tim and I do best (we think).
The "color" books -- Spider-Man: Blue and Daredevil: Yellow were chosen (as will the next two, if we do them) BECAUSE they are rememberances of things past. Some folks are going to find that repetitive, and I can understand that. I DID think about other ways to tell this story in Blue, but remembering Gwen always came back to me as the most effective and emotional way to tell the story. And other than the identity of The Green Goblin, I can't really think of a "mystery" element to Spider-Man -- It's just not that kind of book. Spidey is/was/and will probably always be a soap opera (in the best sense of that word) where a fist fight breaks out at some point. Bad/Good, remember?
Marvel has a unique cadre of women in the heroes lives who have been done away with and this is our small checkpoint to see they are not forgotten. I THINK, (and hope) that when you've all read DDY and SMB in the end, while they are similar, they are not the same (much as Tim's artwork will always have SOME distinction to it that makes it different).
And finally, Obi replied: It's not that I find Blue repetitive. I actually am quite enjoying it. I guess I've just become accustomed to seeing a shift in feel with each new J&T mini, which, as I said, is not a fair expectation to saddle anyone with. I suppose I equate Blue coming out right after Yellow, to a scenario with Dark Victory coming out immediately following TLH. But, since SFAS came out between DV and TLH, DV seemed another dramatic change, even though thematically it was similar to a previous work.
I do like the remembrances, especially since I'm too young to remember these early stories. It's like getting a history lesson, with a captivating professor, who brought extremely picturesque slides. (Forgive me the analogy)
As to plot driven versus slice of life, plot driven just happens to be my preference. However, I do love the slice of life when it's done well, as it is here. You have an unbelievable ability to tap into the emotions of a character.
Without sucking up too much, the best part of a J&T story is that moment where the emotion is so raw it hits you square between the eyes, and it doesn't matter to me which type of storytelling is used to get the reader there. My favorite J&T moment of all time was a sequence in one of the Halloween specials, when an excited Bruce impatiently waits in his Zorro costume for his father to come take him trick or treating. When his mom comes to tell Bruce that his father won't be able to make it, there follows two vivid images forever stuck in my head. One, a long shot of Bruce in profile, head bowed, sword gripped tightly in his hand, his lower lip stiffened against the disappointment. Then, a close-up of a hardened young Bruce, who tells his mom through haunted eyes that he has no friends at school for her to call. I have never been hit with such raw emotion in a comic, and in that moment, I understood how it is Bruce can be so haunted as to do what he does. Coupled with the glimpses of Bruce and his mother in another Halloween special, those images showed me a boy so alone that his whole world was wrapped up in his parents. And when they were taken away, there was no other path for Bruce than to stop anyone else from having to endure the emotional scars he himself lives with.
Sorry to go off on a tangent there. I think SFAS stands as an interesting, middle ground project. While it doesn't have a consistent plot throughout, the use of different narrators created a sense that each issue was different. It gives off a different feeling than Blue and Yellow, where the hero himself serves as the narrator, and their individual memories link the issues together.
Book Three: ANYTHING GOES
Summary: Mary Jane Watson is trying to pick a song on the jukebox at the local coffeehouse, when Flash Thompson comes over to try to pick her up. At the same time all the guys in the place have turned their attention to this mystery girl and who she might be. MJ comes over to the table where Harry Osborn is sitting to say hello and is about to speak to Gwen Stacy when Peter Parker enters. The fact that MJ enthusiastically greets Peter is a mystery to Flash and Harry, but Gwen understands. Ms. Stacy eyes her competition as MJ leads Peter to the counter to buy her a drink, all the while equally sizing Gwen up.
A television at the counter reports that the Lizard is loose at Penn Station, flashing a file photo from the Bugle that Peter once took. MJ suggests they go where the action is so he can get more photos, and she drags Peter out of the coffeehouse, much to Gwen's chagrin. After an exhilirating motorcycle ride to the scene, Mary Jane uses her feminine wiles to beguile a cop so Peter can use the opportunity of the cop's distraction to cross the police tape and get in closer. Once out of sight, he changes into Spiderman.
Inside the station, Spiderman quickly comes across the wife and son of Curt Connors, the scientist who helped Spiderman defeat the Rhino last issue. Curt Connors also happens to be the alter-ego of the Lizard. The webslinger tells the woman to get to safety and that he will help her husband. Once she and her boy have gone, the hero descends into the subway tunnels and quickly encounters the Lizard. The reptilian villain grabs the hero and holds him in place on the tracks as a subway approaches. At the last possible moment, Spiderman jumps out of its path, ending up on one side of the train with the Lizard on the other. When the train has passed, Spiderman finds the Lizard gone; unbeknownst to him, the villain received help in escaping the tunnels from the mysterious shadowy figure seen in issue two.
Topside again, Peter thanks MJ for her help in dodging the cop, but explains that he must part ways with her to get his photos developed. She kisses his battle-wounded forehead and bids him farewell. Moments later, Spiderman is en route to Curt Connors's lab, where he finds the Lizard searching for his own alter-ego. The villain's plan was to force the scientist to use his chemicals to change more people into reptiles like himself, but Spiderman's appearance at the lab thwarts his scheme. Using a nearby tank of nitrogen, the webslinger freezes the Lizard in place and injects him with the antidote, transforming him back into Curt Connors just as his wife and son enter the room.
Upon arriving at Aunt May's that night, Peter finds Harry Osborn waiting for him on the front porch. He tells Peter that with his father Norman in the hospital, an empty apartment Norman owns cannot be filled. Harry suggests that the two of them take up residence there, a living arrangement that would not only give them freedom and put them close to the college campus, but would also be rent-free. Peter graciously accepts, but as Harry leaves, he drops one more bombshell. He is thinking of asking Mary Jane out, he tells Peter, and wants to know where the two of them stand. Peter says that he and MJ are just friends; Harry thanks Peter for the advice, stating as he goes, "with the way Gwen has been giving you the eye, this is all going to work out great." Peter is left alone on the porch to think about these words as his aunt calls him in to dinner.
Thoughts: Page one. I see something I like very much. [Steve: Notice how this dialogue echoes Gwen's in the previous issue, p. 5?] Jeph says it all with the last caption on the page. You can't tell the story of Peter and Gwen without discussing Mary Jane, so let's dicuss her. I said it before, and I'll say it again. Jeph and Tim have put themselves in a delightful pickle with an MJ who has the looks and personality that make her more appealing than Gwen, the focus of Peter's memories. Tim's sultry close-up rendition here is a fitting follow-up to the closing splash from last issue. [Note from Steve: MJ originally met the gang at the Silver Spoon in issue 44, pages 10 and 11.]
The following two page splash was great. Tim is really cramming a lot of atmosphere into all the opening two page spreads from the first three issues. The juke box and varsity jacket, as well as the songs mentioned, creates a time frame. The place gave me the impression of Cheers meets Al's from Happy Days [Steve: or the Max from Saved by the Bell :) ] . I love how Flash is using that grin in an attempt to turn on the charm, but MJ doesn't even bother to look up from what she's doing. Some great dialogue here on Jeph's part as well. I don't know if it was intended, but when Flash says he wants to press 34D, I immediately thought of it as a reference to MJs bust size (of course, this thought may have been aided by all the attention brought to Kirsten Dunst's own endowments in the recent movie). And the four, one-word word balloons had me grinning from ear to ear. Funny stuff. It's also worth noting that Peter can be seen behind MJ [Steve: as can his bike in the upper left corner], who, while not literally placed in the center of the picture, is certainly the center of attention. This may or may not be intended to tie into a caption later this issue.
I thought the closing panel to page four was great. The smiles, Gwen's sideways glance. By placing both Gwen and MJ on the same eye level, with neither significantly closer to, or further from, the reader, it's as if both of them are at a starting line, each checking out the competition going after the same prize.
Page five was great too. The looks on the faces in the top panel are classic. Flash standing there, utterly confused, Harry and the others ensnared by MJ and in awe of how she runs over to Peter. Gwen's look in the second panel has an air of confidence which is somewhat betrayed by her sarcastic dialogue. And the third panel is a nice bit of subtle storytelling. MJ being draped all over Peter works wonderfully with her dialogue, as she throws out the challenge, staking her claim to Peter while ensuring Gwen that there's enough guys to go around for her since she won't be getting Peter. And by pulling back a little and omitting the background in favor of that flat, grey color, Tim accentuates the feeling that Peter is caught in a bit of a limbo, unsure of what to do, and in this case, what to say.
Page six and seven work in tandem to be a great point, counterpoint. The choice of a long shot in the middle panel of page six really distances the gang from Peter and MJ, and produces a sense that the rest of the group is detached, as MJ's focus is certainly on Peter. Meanwhile, Gwen pulls out the make-up and gets ready for the upcoming battle over Peter. This was a great touch, as was the closing close-up that brings us up close and personal, letting us know that Gwen intends to step to the plate. Meanwhile, the larger panel on the top of page seven gives us our first glimpse this issue of Mary Jane without a smile on her face, as she intently focuses on her competition, while playing nonchalant. I like how the cook smiles knowingly, as if the situation amuses him as it surely does the reader.
I liked how page 8 showed how MJ verbally and physically pulled Peter towards a destination, as he is too confused at the moment to make any decision for himself. And the colors on the last panel were astounding. The heavy black and Harry's darkened features contrast sharply with Gwen. I also thought it was great how Tim put Peter & MJ and Gwen & Harry in opposing corners, with lots of space between them. It serves as a nice contrast to how the relationship tides will turn later on.
[Note from Steve: Killer Smile had this to add about the coffeehouse scene:I'm really loving the movie posters in the background of the coffee bar... all movies from the Sixties! "Faster, Pussycat! Kill! Kill!" got me thinking... there's "8 1/2", a reference to Bob Dylan (although NOT the Milton Glaser poster I thought Tim might use), "2001: A Space Odyssey"(misspelled, I might add), and, of course, one of the best gangster movies of all time...John Boorman's 1967 Lee Marvin classic, "Point Blank".
Then DeForgeo had this comment to make to Obi about page nine:Obi, I remember you criticizing the motorcycle scene in Blue #1, saying it wasn't dynamic enough. . . I'd say that the one in Blue #3 more than made up for it, eh?]
Page 9. Criticized is such a harsh word De. I prefer to think of it as disagreeing with a creative decision. It's funny you should mention this issue's motorcycle scene, because as soon as I saw it I knew it was going to play a role in my review. Yes De, this is more what I was looking for in issue 1. The camera angle and MJ's pose give that out of control, fleeting feeling that I thought would have been a perfect metaphor for Peter and Gwen's relationship. However, this page serves as a sharp contrast to the page in issue one, as MJ throws her arms to the wind, wanting to speed faster and faster, in a hurry to get where they're going, while Gwen's motorcycle splash showed her arms tightly wrapped around Peter, content to be where she is, wrapped up in the moment. When I look at it that way, let me just say, brilliant job J&T. I still think Gwen's splash from issue one is unexciting visually, but it seems to me that may have been the point. The two splashes, when viewed seperately, give a glimpse into each girl's personality. By contrast, MJ is a wild, care-free girl, while Gwen is more traditional and reserved. [Steve: This motorcycle ride originally centered around the Rhino battle in issue 43 of the original, and as seen in the previous issue of Blue. Oh and don't miss the issue's title in the narration here.]
Page 10 was another great look at MJ's personality. The third panel was a very intelligent composition, as the POV shot places MJ up close and personal, grabbing our attention as she does the officer's, while Peter is off to the side, taking up only a small fraction of the peripheral of our vision, nothing but an afterthought. If he didn't have dialogue, you might not even notice him on a quick glance, hence the reason he is able to sneak in unnoticed. Very well done.
[Note from Steve: No comments from Obi about page 11, which I think underscores the importance of the message there. We see Spidey interact with Curt Connors's wife and son here, which sets up the main difficulty in this part of the story: Peter's closeness to Curt Connors gives him difficulty when he fights the Lizard, Connors's alter-ego. He's trying to help him more than anything else throughout the battle, and that hinders his abilities. In other words, it's fostering more conflict between Peter's personal feelings and his superheroic antics. Also, I should note that the conflict with the Lizard did begin at a train station in the original issue, which was issue 44. However, Peter was already there, seeing Aunt May off for a brief vacation in the country so she could recuperate. He also saw the Connors family as Peter before changing into Spidey. This was all before the Lizard had actually went on a rampage, and in the original Spidey and the Lizard never fought in the tunnels. Spidey merely followed the Lizard's trail up to a certain point and then lost him.]
I wish Tim had broken panel borders with the Lizard's introduction panel on page 12. That left hand of his could have jumped off the page and seemed as if he was reaching out for the reader. Still, good use of perspective and camera angle to bring us up close to him.
"Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? That is the sound of inevitability." Page 14 just screamed "Matrix". I thought this page was well done, whether the homage was intended or not. I loved the middle panel, with the headlights framing the characters. It just looked awesome.
[Note from Steve: Obi fails to comment on the appearance of the shadowy figure here on page 15, but that might be because his appearance here is not really that noteworthy. It's more like Jeph is simply trying to remind us of his presence for later... say maybe next issue?]
Ah, MJ waiting on the bike. Great pose on Tim's part. Don't we all wish we could have a beautiful red-head waiting to kiss our boo-boos? The last panel where there is so much empty space behind Peter gives me a sense that the realization he is now a part of MJ's world leaves Peter feeling overwhelmed and at a loss, which Jeph previously pointed out in his closing captions on page 10. [This again was originally a scene during the Rhino fight in issue 43 (page 14 to be exact) not in an issue with the Lizard.]
[Steve: I like the first two panels of page 17, the first of which sets up with an exterior shot the locale (Connors's lab from last issue) and the problem Spidey will face inside (with the broken window). The second panel sets up for us how the problem (the Lizard, seen smashing things in the foreground) will be solved (the nitrogen in the background). gotta love that subtlety. by the way, this second fight occurred in issue 45 of the original ASM run, and it started at a reptile house at a zoo. Spidey beat the Lizard and then brought him back to the lab afterward to concoct the antidote.]
Even though there was no real question as to how this would end up, I liked the slow down on the last 4 panels of pg 19 and the close up of the key in the lock on the top of page 20. It creates a little suspense, a sense of "Can Spidey do it in time?". This sequence would work great in a movie, where the result comes in time, rather than the result already being there on the printed page. Still, Spidey opening the door to let us in on the result was a nice touch. I also thought one of the best bits of comedy was Spidey pointing and saying "This is me, leaving." [Steve: Come on, Obi! What about the "true believers" comment he makes at the top of the page? Now THAT's classic! Anyhoo, the reveal of Curt pretty much happened this way, albeit with slightly different dialogue, on page 18 of issue 45.] The closing panel dialogue was cheesy, but very suited to the type of story told in the era J&T are harkening back to. It was something Stan Lee would have written to close an issue back in the day. [The really interesting thing about that: Stan wrote NO dialogue for this scene. you see, in the original, I guess Stan was in too much of rush to pop some dialogue into this panel and he left it with empty word balloons, saying it was up to the reader to fill in what they said. But the art that Tim does here is a spot-on reproduction of the original.]
LOVED the colors on the closing page. Big points to Steve Buccellato for this one. Almost as much as seeing Peter with MJ or Gwen, I am thoroughly enjoying seeing the beginning of the friendship between Peter and Harry. Tim did a great piece of character foreshadowing on the second panel here. The shadow and look on Harry's face, coupled with him wearing the green suit, was a nice glimpse of the darkness that has yet to emerge in Harry, that later events will drive him to. And the closing shot of Peter, alone, with so much open space around him, was an excellent finish. This idea of Peter with space around him seems to be a recurring motif, and fits in perfectly here, as Harry's proposition, coupled with the events of the day with MJ, leave Peter as lost and confused as ever. It's a fitting impression for the reader to end with. [Steve: Harry asking Peter to room with him originally occurred under much happier circumstances in issue 46 on page 6.]
Obi also had the following general comment about the issue to make: Despite the obvious similarities between Spidey:Blue and DD:Y, there is one glaring difference I find readily apparent. After the origin story in the first two issues of DD:Y, J&T turned to the developing love story between Matt and Karen. At the same time, the superhero side of DD:Y seemed to entwine itself into the developing romance. Daredevil was constantly saving Karen from one predicament or another. However, in Spidey:Blue, Peter's love story is completely seperate from his web-swinging alter-ego's developing story with the mystery figure helping Spidey's villains. The two sides seem so seperate, that to me the superheroing in issues 2 and 3 have gotten in the way of the love story and the developing relationships between the characters. Now, I have no idea where J&T are taking us or will leave off, so these two aspects may merge at some point, quite possibly with the fatal bridge scene. But as of right now, rather than mesh with and complement each other (as they did in DD:Y), the love story and superhero antics in Spidey:Blue seem at odds with each other.
To that comment, Killer Smile responded with: Obi, your mention of the love story being separate from the superhero antics...I think this may have something to do with the fact that superhero antics are what got Gwen Stacy killed to begin with.
There's constant crossover of the two threads, but it's subtle... M.J. getting Peter into Penn Station, Gwen's comment being the catalyst to the Rhino's defeat, the Goblin's photos being used to buy the motorcycle to impress Gwen. It's subtle, but it's definitely there and it's a classy (albeit sneaky) way to go.
Obi then rebutted: Nice observations Killer. Your points about the two threads crossing over is interesting, but still doesn't satisfy the problem of the developing romance not being entwined with Peter's superhero adventures. The girls haven't had to be rescued, a la Karen, and while this may change, it isn't a constant like it was in DD:Y. It may be intended, as you pointed out about superhero antics eventually getting to Gwen. The idea of Matt not being able to be there to save Karen the last time may be an interesting parallel to Peter not being able to be their for Gwen the first time. Only time (and 3 more issues) will tell. It just seems to me that rather than one element being a subplot, the two are battling for equal attention, rather than working together like they did in DD:Y.
I then threw in my two cents: If you read those old Spidey issues, Peter's life was ALWAYS in conflict with his superheroing. he would miss a date with Liz Allan because he was fighting the Vulture, or he would have to run off in the middle of a fight because Aunt May was sick and then everyone would think Spiderman was a coward. He just couldn't win.
The time period WE'RE seeing of Peter's life is when things are looking up for him. He's coming into his own, making friends with people who used to make fun of him. He's got two different but both very gorgeous girls who are hip to him. He's going off to college, getting his own apartment, and thus becoming his own man.
And the superhero part of his life is totally separate from all of that, and he seems to have it pretty well under control. He's beaten these last two villains with his brain essentially, using his scientific knowledge to conquer any threats. So he's feeling confident there too.
But this shadowy figure I'm guessing is going to throw a monkey wrench into all of that. If it IS Kraven, both his cunning AND his brute strength will be pushed to the limits. And he may not succeed.
my point is this: the lives of Peter and Spiderman are separate now, but they won't be for long. I predict the shadowy figure will draw his personal life and his hero life together, putting his friends in peril, and Peter will end up saving the day and thinking everything is hunky-dory.
But WE will know everything is NOT fine. We've already seen Prof. Warren a.k.a the Jackal. We know Harry will become an addict. And we know Gwen Stacy is not long for this world. Jeph is USING our knowledge of these things against us, and he will use them to make the conclusion of this series, like Yellow was, one that is bittersweet.
Obi responded by saying: I really like this point VB, and had not thought of it this way. Still, I prefer an interconnection between his two worlds. In SFAS, TLH, DV, and DD:Y, the superhero lives impacted their civilian alter-egos, and vice versa. There the two elements were meshed together, while in Blue the elements feel to be fighting for my attention rather than working in conjunction with one another.
With three issues down and only three to go, if the personal life meets up with the hero's escapades in the sixth issue, it may be a fitting finale, but it won't hide the fact that for five issues the two sides were in conflict to the point where one seemed a distraction to the other. I still prefer to see it as a constant integration as opposed to a culmination, but, as with so many of my unsolicited opinions, that too is simply my preference.
And my final word on the subject was: But again, that's the point I think. The personal and hero elements are always fighting for PETER's attention too. I think they'll culminate sooner than issue six, but it will still be that: a culmination. And that's as it should be I think. A constant integration would be both too similar to Yellow and not exactly fitting with Spiderman's history.
Book Four: AUTUMN IN NEW YORK
Summary: pending
Thoughts: To start, Blue #4 was another quaint glimpse back to the past of our favorite wall-crawler. All the heart that Jeph and Tim bring to the characters they work on was evident here. That said, issue 4 did nothing to alleviate any of the trouble points I'm having with the series, especially in regards to Gwen. (Which I won't recount here, but you can read on page 6 of this thread.) with Peter recording his thoughts to Gwen, having her as such a peripheral character is lessening the effect the story is having on me. Karen was so central to the events in DD:Y, and to me, following so closely on the heels of that mini forces comparisons with Blue, and DD:Y is winning by a fair margin in the book of Obiwan.
Regardless, even though I am not enjoying this series quite as much as I did J&T's other recent minis, the level of craft used in their storytelling is still quite high.
The opening few pages were quite well done. J&T are opening these "color" issues with the same splash page, double splash page set-up. However, despite the tendency for this type of opening to speed up the story, Tim has continually done a great job of slowing down the story by cramming a lot of background detail into the two page spreads. Here he even does it with the opening splash page, further slowing down the pace by giving us a little extra to look at this time, and subtly forcing us to spend extra time on each of these pages in order to take in all the little nuances he throws in there. I think this helps to reinforce the flashback feel that they are creating with the "color" minis, because I really do slow down to take in the moment J&T choose to present us on those pages. And Tim has been doing it equally well with and without lots of blacks, as this spread sharply contrasts in tone to issue 2's scene at the news vendor stand.
Page 4 helped to further slow down the scene, as Jeph's "WHRRR" captions are mirrored by Tim's moment-to-moment panel layout. By slowing down the opening over four pages like that, it really helped to visually support the closeness of Peter's relationship to Aunt May, and how neither one wants to hurt the other. Tim's drawings and pacing perfectly echo Jeph's captions, and the dialogue only heightens the close bond that is shared between the two.
[Steve: Aunt May asks Peter if she can move in with Anna Watson in issue 46 of the original ASM run, on page 10. However Anna had first proposed the idea several issues before, on page 2 of issue 41.]
Cut to the correctional facility. I'm going to echo De's sentiments. I too would have liked to see the original Vulture take flight. His aged form and bald head make him a more visually interesting villain. Still, since J&T are pulling these stories from a run of issues, my guess is that this happened originally.
[What exactly were DeForgeo's comments, you ask? Well, he had this to say about Blackie Drago: Using the second Vulture was an interesting twist, but I would have preferred it if they had used the old, bald one. This version just wasn't that interesting to look at. "Blackie" just didn't pack the same punch that the Rhino, Green Goblin and Lizard did in the previous issues.
But Killer Smile replies with a different point of view: I gotta say, I was happy to see Blackie Drago again...I haven't seen him since his climactic battle with Adrian Toomes in Amazing Spider-Man...my parents bought me an Archie-sized reprint with that story when I was just a little kid...John Romita's cityscapes floored me, and they still floor me to this day. I wish I had that book on me. Although, doesn't Drago wear a green hood over his eyes to conceal his identity? And what's with the claws on the feet? I think Tim is remembering the same story I am, where Toomes and Drago battle it out, heads exposed. Toomes, I might add, kicks Drago's tailfeathers. And I would add that this event is canonical and fits the era, as Adrian told Blackie, while in the infirmary after an accident Blackie had caused, where the spare wings were in issue 48 of the original, page 3 for those who care.]
Page seven was a neat piece of storytelling. Two establishing shots sandwiched around an action shot is something you normally wouldn't see, but it works here. The first panel establishes a general location, and is enough to let you know where you are. The second panel is background-less, and rightfully so, as the focus should be solely on the event occurring, and the body posture alone tells you all you need to know. I also thought it was a nice touch how Tim only showed three of the Vulture's fingers, bony and curled like a vulture's claw would be. Plus the beak nose... like I said, he's just a more visually appealing villain. The third panel was an engaging one for a couple reasons. One, it's size alone makes it the focal point of the page. Two, it's a second establishing shot that works in conjunction with the first shot to narrow down exactly where we are. Three, by placing the camera angle looking down, we're certainly detached from the proceedings, and since the cast of characters is all so uniform, it makes everyone seem innocent, even Blackie, who upon first read seems an innocent bystander when he calls for help. However, the detachment and the setting really are clues to the fact that the heart attack is not due to the Vulture's advanced age, but rather some foul play. Nice work.
Page 8 was nice, as the three vertical panels visually heightened the drama unfolding within them, and the last panel had some dark irony as the guards reprimand Blackie rather than attempt to help the Vulture as he lies there in agony.
While they serve mostly as story-progression, pages 9 and 10 continue the motif of showing MJ as the center of attention, as she shows up center page and center panel foreground in several panels. These two pages are a good example of how Tim uses panel size and background detail to keep your eye on certain moments while he moves you quickly past those that are for story progression purposes, ie panel 4 on page 9 and panels 2,3&4 on page 10.
Pages 11-12 move quickly, moving you towards the inevitable confrontation with Blackie, and even more inevitable confrontation with our mystery character (who I still think is Kraven.) I like how Tim used lights in panel one of page 11 to draw your attention to the events, as well as the placement of the captions and word balloons on either side, creating a visual flow to that panel. The lights on the last panel leading us to the next page was a nice touch as well.
[Killer asked at this point: are we sure this mystery man is Kraven? It looks almost like he's flying away in his appearance this issue. My reply: He does say in this issue that he's going to HUNT Blackie down if anything goes wrong ... I would also add at this point that in the original issue (48), Blackie escaped without help on pages 5 and 6.]
While there were some nice touches of humor on pages 13-14, the whole scene was reminiscent of Karen catching a glimpse of DD swinging by in Yellow, and Foggy showing his disbelief. Come to think of it, I believe that happened in issue 4 of DD:Y. This is one of those things that is bothering me. The comparisons between Blue and Yellow in some cases are so similar that what was a funny scene seems a tad unoriginal. And the 60s feel continues to not work for me. The record player, the drink glasses, the dancing, I just can't relate to it. Still, I give them credit. It definitely creates an atmosphere. There were some other nice touches, including Gwen looking right at and almost reaching out to the reader on the bottom panel of page 13, and the large panel of Gwen and MJ dancing, which truly is the highlight of any party, as both Harry and Peter point out. The pacing of Flash missing Spidey swing by was well done too.
[Good ol' Killer Smile added: Did anyone else notice M.J.'s referring to Spidey villains as 'Big Bads'? I thought that was hilarious. The 'Big Bad' is the main villain on "Buffy:The Vampire Slayer" every season...as we all well know, Jeph was working on the Buffy animated series before he began working on Smallville. Also, look for a boatload of comments on the Gwen/MJ similarities at the end of this issue's "Thoughts," but in Jeph's defense, this Gwen/MJ "dance-off" scene did appear at a party in issue 47 (page 10 to be precise). This was Flash's farewell party, since he'd be leaving for the army soon, so again we see Jeph playing with timelines. Also, Peter was present at the party, and there was more overt Gwen and MJ competition for his attention. Oh, and the party got interrupted... when Kraven burst in and attacked Harry in an attempt to draw Norman, as the GG, out. It didn't work, by the way.]
The fight scene was also well paced. Tim really speeds up the action in the beginning of the battle by decreasing the panel count per page and cutting down on the background distraction. Using more solid black areas helped as well. The bottom panel of page 15 was a wonderful use of positive and negative space and perspective. If Tim had positioned Spidey with the same pose but found a way to have his hand break the panel border, it would have even furthered the sense of Spidey's fall.
The use of the silhouetted wing tip was a smart decision as well. While being a distinctly recognizable shape, it doesn't create something to focus on, and thus we focus on Spidey, and this emphasizes the caught off-guard feeling that Jeph states in the captions.
Large center panel on page 19 is a good way to introduce our first shot of Blackie in costume. And page 21 was a great comparison between the problems Peter must fight off in both of his identities, and since the panels are equal sized, it shows that for Peter, both problems are of equal importance. This is echoed by Jeph's captions on the closing splash, as Peter's last thoughts are of letting the gang down, just as he's starting to make it in good with them. And with the distance and angle Tim presents Spidey to us, we get a sense of just how alone he is, as he lies there, injured and left to his uncertain thoughts. Good way to end on a cliffhanger. [Credit where it's due: this was EXACTLY how Stan ended issue 48 of the original, albeit Blackie was wearing the infamous helmet the whole time. Oh and don't overlook the title appearing once more in Peter's narration on page 20.]
[The man with the Killer Smile, however, thought: The whole "I may be dying, but the fact that I'm letting down The Gang is the real bummer" rings hollow for me. Doesn't have the same sense that Spidey's previous fights have had.]
To all of this, Jeph himself rebutted: Sorry I've been out of the loop for a bit. But, I've been reading and listening and I'm glad you're liking some, if not all of SM:B. It's a curious combination of criticisms -- not enough emotion like DDY, and yet, too much like DDY... but, I DO get it.
Truth is, the hardest part about doing these "color" series is that they are intended to be stand alone stories about a particular time in Marveldom. So, while the record player or the "I let the gang down." may not ring true today for whatever reason, I think some of that has to do with the sophistication of the people on this board. You've read ALL the stuff Tim and I have done and while we strive to be original, there are things that are going to feel like "this" or "that."
It goes back to the TLH/DV argument -- which is better, when there is no way to really recreate the unexpected specialness that TLH took on.
Working on SMALLVILLE, I'm knee deep in this kind of problem. We have an obligation to tell wonderful, original, startling, emotional stories each week -- and at the same time, recreate the same emotional impact of the best episodes. The challenge is what makes it work worthwhile; the result is going to be at the eye of the beholder.
I love what Tim is doing is SM:B and I'm more than aware that folks are very divided by "this is a retelling of a story I know" and "this is a story that reminds me of stories that I loved." It's a hard line. Part of what made DDY successful was that many of our readers knew Karen because she was part of current continuity and her death was new stuff. Here, Gwen is someone you almost have to be a longtime reader to appreciate -- but I am trying to get folks to understand what it's like to lose your first love. I guess as a married man who can still remember that girl that was the road not taken, it has a certain inherent wistfulness. As I always say, I can only tell the best story I can and hope folks like the result.
The color books are going to be collected as hardcover editions and hopefully be around for a long time. They are intended to be primers for the new reader and reminders for the older ones.
I'm looking forward to Hulk: Gray because so much of it will be stuff no one has ever seen before; and yet, still fit within the continuity that has been established.
Killer: I understand where you're coming from on the Spidey book, and I AM enjoying it. You just happen to have caught me on the issue I've enjoyed LEAST, at least from an emotional standpoint. I echoed that sentiment and then Killer expanded with: Yeah, I think it may have something to do with the fact that I've read some of Blackie Drago's adventures as the Vulture, and the issue where Adrian Toomes busts Blackie out of jail just to beat him stupid in front of a crowd is one of my favorite issues of Amazing Spidey. I love Romita, Sr. Plus, I've never really bought Gwen Stacy as that perfect girl who got herself martyred. I always like MJ better, and it really hurts that they can't seem to get a decent bead on her these days. Then I added: Well now I love Gwen to pieces, but in this issue she and MJ seemed like carbon copies of each other a bit too much.
At this point, Jeph stepped in again: Ah, I'm not sure that because the girls started to get along they were the same. Gwen just wanted to prove that she could rock the same as MJ -- but, up until this point, MJ had never shown herself to be anything other than a party girl. Her dating Harry at the time was part of that mythos.
In the end, Gwen's death is more than just the martyrdom that some have come to see it as. She plays a signifcant role -- or else the theme of "a bad thing turns into a good thing" wouldn't ring true.
Looking forward blazing to the end (and I think the Blackie Drago Vulture story MAYBE feels a bit empty because it really is Part One of a two part tale (odd for a mini series, I admit, but we'll see where it takes us).
My reply: You know, that kind of makes sense. Folks have a tendency at times to act like other people when in their presence, even if it is contrary to their personalities. So perhaps Gwen was just trying to show MJ she could keep up... another subtle move to make sure her territory is protected... nice. I like it much better now.
Killer: I still don't quite get it. I haven't read much of Lee's original stuff, but I can honestly say I don't 'get' Gwen Stacy. She's the pretty blonde who flirts.
I don't really see anything more than that. I'm reminded of the great "High Fidelity", where the hero revisits the super-attractive, super-smart girl who dumped him in college and finds she's a shallow, vapid, boring person. Is the reason Gwen is so interesting to Peter is that she died before her purpose in his life was achieved? That he never saw a chance to see the cracks in her perfect facade?
If so, that doesn't say much for Gwen, and it says even less for Mary Jane, who I still feel is getting the short end of the stick in every Spidey book out there right now.
Can you guys help? WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH GWEN STACY?
Me: I think that's exactly it. She was sweet, she was beautiful, she LIKED him (which for Peter who still thought of himself as a dork WAS a big deal)... and then she was gone forever.
For me Gwen Stacy reminds me of a girl I was in love with in the sixth grade. She was super-cute, thought I was OK (which is saying a LOT for me in junior high) and would have went out with me... IF she hadn't been moving away... but she did. I have no clue where she is now or what she's like... but I like to imagine a wonderful life for her.
People have a tendency to romanticize the one that got away and I do think a fair amount of that is happening with Peter's memory of Gwen. But the interesting thing is that the reality of her character DID live up to the romantic ideal. Read the last issue of Marvels. Pure tragedy, made me feel for Gwen so much more than issue 121 of ASM did. And ASM 121 made me feel a LOT so that's really saying something...
Killer: I can see how you would get MJ and Gwen's personalities mixed up a bit, Vac, because when it all comes down, they're both enormously attractive girls who both liked Peter. The thing that gets me, about the last issue in particular and this issue somewhat more, is that GWEN seems to be trying to live up to MARY JANE.
I think maybe Jeph is trying to show that MJ IS the one for Peter, and thereby illustrating this from a pivotal point in Peter's history. The "bad thing to good thing" probably means Gwen's demise means Peter's free to chase MJ (at least until the mid-Eighties!).
Finally Obi steps back in to finish things up: Don't forget Killer, there's been many more years of MJ stories than there were of Gwen stories, so you're certainly more familiar with her, and thus probably more likely to have a greater affinity for that character. As to MJ's not being written well in the last few years, that's a matter of individual preference which I can't comment on, because I haven't read a regular Spidey title in years. But let me take a crack at what I think it is about Gwen, and maybe something I ramble about may help you like her more.
Now, admittedly, I've never read much of the old Spidey stuff, but there is always SOMETHING about your first love. It's not about Gwen being perfect Killer, but rather about the excitement and newness that a first love brings. Peter and Gwen were young and in love, and that first time is a pretty special thing.
Would Peter and Gwen have stayed together forever? Who knows. Everyone always plays the "What If?" game. But in Peter's case, it's not the "What if I'd stayed with her?" game, but rather the "What if my homicidal arch-nemesis hadn't killed the woman I loved to get to me?" game. Bad before good. MJ is one of the goods after the bads, but you never really appreciate what you have unless there is something you've lost to compare it to. Gwen is that comparison point for Peter. It's not that Gwen was the perfect girl. She was the perfect girl for Peter at THAT time.
At that point in his career, Gwen was the type of girl that better fit Peter's personality. MJ was more the Spider-man side of his personality, the wild, adventurous side. No one transforms over-night and, at that time, Peter was still a shy young man who lacked confidence. He wasn't cool, or a part of 'the gang'. He was still the brainy bookworm. Well, nothing gives a guy confidence like a pretty girl who thinks he is a real catch. Gwen was an essential part of Peter's early adulthood, and his development as a person. So you could say, that in a way, without Gwen, Peter may never have been able to be with MJ.
You never forget your first love, or the one that got away. Plus, as a result of what happened to her, Gwen has become a martyr in the Spider-man mythology. But as Jeph points out, many of today's readers really aren't familiar with her character. So, even though I haven't been grabbed by this mini as much, I'm glad J&T did this series, so that people will be aware of her, and why she is such a part of who Peter is.
Book Five: IF I HAD YOU
Summary: pending
Thoughts: Issue 5 was good. It was nice. It was quaint. I've now read it a couple of times, and I like it more with each reading. That being said, I still can't shake some of the nagging problems I've had with this whole series in general.
My good friend (who is also my comics supplier) read this one before I did, and his review of it was as follows:
"It was nice. It was very Jeph and Tim."
This got me thinking, because although he too is enjoying the series, he's also having issues with the same problems I have. One is the similarities between Yellow and Blue (and our fear that Gray will further heighten our awareness of the similarities). The other is the episodic nature of the events in the series. Furthermore, we both would like to see more of Gwen in a series which has at its core a remembrance of Gwen. Saying "It was very Jeph and Tim" was almost like saying it's old hat for them now. It doesn't have the positive connotation that it would have had before this series.
I think part of the similarity problem rests in the captions. Jeph has had great success penning words that help the reader relate to the sense of loss that both Matt and Peter feel. However, over 11 issues now, they all start to blur together. There's a detectable pattern and theme to them that at times makes it seem like it's the same thought or feeling, only written in a new way. Plus, although Jeph has injected a fair amount of humor into the captions, the humor is always tinged with an edge of sadness because the captions themselves are generally reflecting on somber events. Thus I feel sometimes the humor and levity found in reflecting on the past is dampened by the overwhelming sadness of what is to come. That's not a bad thing, as it certainly helps to bring real emotional weight to the series, but it does add to the feeling of similitude between Yellow and Blue.
Anyhow, I thought there was some great stuff in this issue, so I'll stop focusing on the negative now :)
I thought the opening splash page was wonderful. There's some nice design work at play there. Harry peeking out, with the chain latched on the door, a subtle smirk on his face, the sinister arch to his eyebrow. It all works together to create the sense that rather than Harry peeking out, we're peeking in at the real Harry, the one he keeps concealed. Later, on page four, there's some more ambiguosness about Harry, both in Jeph's captions and Tim's depictions of him. However, I'm not sure if they are trying to indicate Harry's eventual fate to take over his father's identity, or some subplot element from the original run that J&T are working within, in which case it will hopefully be revealed next issue. [Steve's note: Pages two and three of issue 49 showed Peter groggily getting up from the rooftop and returning to his apartment, something that Jeph cut here for good reason. One thing to note though is that in the original, Peter had already lived in the apartment for a while, since the end of issue 46 to be precise, so he didn't need Harry to let him in, simply coming in through the window and collapsing in bed.]
I liked the double page splash that followed as well. I don't know much about NYC apartments, but from what I've heard, they are generally very small and extremely expensive. So these pages reiterate how big the apartment is, and how Peter's luck swings from bad to good and vice versa.
[HUGE historical note from Steve: Adrian Toomes, the original Vulture, was not revealed to have survived his prison brush with Blackie until issue 63 of the original run. He escaped on his own on page 12 of that issue, found the replacement Vulture, and kicked the tar out of him without any interference from spidey. It was not until issue 64 that Adrian and Spidey then clashed and Spidey beat the Vulture, although the Vulture did get away. HOWEVER, the events of this issue of Blue are closer in time and content to the events of issue 49, in which Spidey defeated a sparring Blackie Drago... and Kraven the Hunter. I believe Jeph substituted Adrian for Kraven here, so Kraven can attack the gang in the next issue of Blue as he did in issues 47 and 49 of the original run.]
There were some nice interchanges with Peter and MJ, and then Peter, MJ and Gwen. Jeph and Tim do a good job of characterization with both the girls, in both art and dialogue. For instance, Tim did a great job in showing the arrival of both girls to Peter's bedroom. MJ's entrance on page 7 has her center of the page, center of attention. Meanwhile, Gwen's arrival on page 9 provides a full body shot to allow her time to shine, but doesn't thrust her into the center of everything. It's a beautiful, subtle piece of work on Tim's part.
In Peter's time alone with MJ, we see the sensuality of her character. Throughout the series her clothes have had a more provocative flair than Gwen's, and her red dress here is certainly another example of that. It plays up the danger and excitement of her character, as does her body language. I love how she sits right down on Peter's bed and spoon feeds him. The first panel of page 8 is a wonderful use of a panel in profile, as it allows us to take in the scene from a bit of a detached perspective. And as a young, red-blooded American male, I would have to say the scene is ideal. Snow falling outside, the soup steaming, MJ's beautiful figure practically thrust into Peter's perfectly expressive face. Who could ask for anything more? (Although, Peter will get even more momentarily :) ) Then pull into a close-up of MJ and her mention of nursing skills. I loved it. She simply brings attention to herself through being herself. I think J&T have pegged her perfectly.
I thought Gwen's entrance was great as well. The bottom panel of page 8 was well executed. Although the red of MJ's hair and dress still grabs our attention because it stands out from the rest of the drab colors, she's been somewhat pushed out of the center of the panel for the first time since she appeared in Peter's bedroom. Instead, Peter's expression takes center panel and center stage, thus creating a little extra anticipation for Gwen's arrival. MJ's dialogue was also funny and perfectly in character. We then see Gwen at work. Her style is not as seductive as MJ's, but the fact that she went to Aunt May to find out about Huck Finn is a telling bit of characterization. We then get presented with another profile shot on top of page 10, this one a little further removed, which, with the Vulture's arrival, helps demonstrate the uncomfortableness of the situation. Furthermore, while the previous pages were filled with entrances and close-ups, page 10 has a detached feel in both color and panel selection, which helps emphasize Jeph's bad before good idea. [Two things: these pages seemed the most logical place for this issue's title to appear in the narration. but it didn't. so I can't help but wonder if this issue were originally titled "Bad before Good." Also, I wanted to note that in issue 49 of the original run, Peter is nursed out of a cold between fights with the Vulture... but Aunt May is the one who does it. the girls only stop by for a moment on page 10.]
"Let me get this straight. He's got BOTH of them up there?" Great line of dialogue. But then, all of page 11 was great. I love how it emphasized Gwen and MJ's jilted demeanors by providing a contrast in Flash and Harry's more jovial expressions. MJ's face on the 3rd panel was great. Quite the turn around from her happy-go-lucky nature around Peter. Body language spoke volumes on this page.
Page 12 was a perfect blend of words and pictures. Peter's angered reflection in the first panel and the down angle shot in the second panel visually provided the indifference Jeph mentions in the captions, only to be changed to wonderful determination in the bottom panel, as Spidey pulls on the mask, with no background behind him. The black filling in the panel was a nice touch, as it stressed the sense of gravity of the moment, as if nothing else now exists beyond the need for Spiderman and for Peter to do what he knows is right.
Nice double page splash of the aerial battle. I thought the colors were fantastic on the buildings. It perfectly rendered the grayness that a falling snow provides, and by dulling down the surrounding colors, also provides color emphasis on the battle. [Steve: And though it's impossible to miss, I'll point out the classic twist on the "with great power comes great responsibility" line in the narration here.]
I liked the interlude with Flash. Page 16 was a nice use of diagonals, as Flash's hunch to pick up the bag of money mirrors the angle of his walk in the panel above, while also leading us to turn to page 17, which was a classy piece of homage [to the cover of Amazing Fantasy 15, as if you didn't know]. Some might think it cheesy, but it worked in the context of this series.
The extreme down angle of the top panel of page 18 was nice. I really like these types of panels that provide such extreme perspective and detachment. This particular one provides you a sense of scope for Peter's aerial web-swinging, as he swept Flash from the ground below to the rooftops above. I also thought the profile of Flash in the last panel was another well thought out panel, as once again we are provided a little detachment as Flash reflects on a question I think many of us have asked ourselves at one point or another.
The battle between Spidey and the Vultures was handled fine. I don't think Tim's strengths rest in fight scenes, and I would have changed a few things here, but he handled it capably, and more importantly, it was easy to follow. I did like the analogy between Gwen and MJ and the Vultures fighting over the same thing.
The final two pages painted a nice scene inside while impending danger resided outside. The mystery character perched silently watching it all transpire was a fitting way to end and lead into the next issue. [Steve: wanted to note that in the original, Flash was inducted into the service (this being the Vietnam era) as opposed to signing up. This plotpoint was first mentioned in issue 43 on page 20. It then reappeared inbits of dialogue in issue 44 on page 10, issue 45 on page 6, and issue 46 page 10, before finally it culminated in the party in issue 47 on pages 5, 9-10 and Flash's farewell handshake with Peter on page 20. Also, don't miss the "Amazing Fantasy" reference on page 21, which I thought was classic.]
All in all, this issue leaves me feeling like the others. There are some beautiful pieces, but they don't form a complete whole. At least not yet anyway. Still one issue to go though...
Killer finally chimed in:Just got back from Christmas at the farm, where I managed to pick up a copy of Spidey:Blue 5.
It was awful.
I have a big problem with comic books nowadays, and a big part of that big problem is creators having to work on characters whose best stories are behind them. Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale are smart guys...they understand that Stan and John and Steve did an amazing Spider-Man, and Jeph is informing their old work in his new work. Jeph is a great writer, and you know what I think of Tim as an illustrator. He's one of my gods.
But have you read Amazing Spider-Man 63-64, by Stan Lee and John Romita Sr.? The last two issues of Blue have been referencing this story, where the thought-dead original Vulture vaults back to life, springs Blackie Drago from prison and pummels him before setting his sights on a sick and injured Spidey.
This is the soul of great comic writing. The Vulture is lean, strong, and seriously scary. This is a supervillain, not some skinny old man in long johns. The splash page gave me nightmares, the ending a true cliffhanger. Panel after panel loaded with drama, power, strength. Flash's enrollment in the army is mentioned(he went to Vietnam), so's Norman and Captain Stacy. This is great stuff!
And what does Jeph give us? Re-heated genius! Look, I'm sure Jamie Oliver doing Emeril Lagasse's leftovers still tastes delicious, but I really want a dish worthy of the man's talents!
Look, I'll level with you. Yellow, I liked. Grey, I'll like too, because I don't like Daredevil and I don't like the Hulk. But Spider-Man has been my boy for twenty years, and seeing him re-done like this(and in Ultimate Spider-Man, which is another rant altogether) pains me. I want Jeph and Tim to do their own characters, their own way. Put it this way; who was more interesting in Dark Victory; Batman, who we've seen a hundred ways since 1933, or the Falcone family, who Jeph and Tim got to make up as they went along?
My rebuttal: I think that for making that pun about Stan doing an "amazing Spider-man," you should be shot. :)
But seriously, I don't have a problem with people working on other people's creations or retelling old stories.
In days of yore, the originality of a story, the creation of it, did not matter as much as the actual telling of it. The technique, the style, the way the storyteller drew the reader in--these were the things that mattered, not the originality of the tale.
Shakespeare's best known works are plays that he adapted from someone else, so why must Jeph Loeb find "new" ground?
I guess my feeling is that, were the story just a rehashing of the original, shot by shot (like the technical exercise that was Gus van Sant's Psycho), it would still be interesting to see how Jeph matched dialogue to the time and Tim matched the artistic style but nothing else. But luckily this tale is more than that; it is adding to the stories, filling in the space between the gutters, showing us the things we never saw in the originals. It's a subtle thing, a matter of minor nuances and trifles at times... but it sure grabs me.
Killer replied: Valid points. I never meant that Jeph and Tim *should* do new stories, I simply meant that I thought they might *like* to.
And, if Jeph is reading this, thanks at least for giving us a Spider-Man that is about a spider-man, and not Parker alone. Stan and John averaged, what, four pages an issue devoted to Parker and his world? Brian Michael Bendis' last issue of Ultimate Spider-Man featured a whopping zero panels of Spidey at all. When exactly did words start speaking louder, I'd like to know.
Obi's response: There's fine work being done in the craftsmanship of this series Killer, and that's where I'm taking my enjoyment from within Blue. I would agree with VB that originality in comics is difficult to obtain because, in one form or another, we've seen the same basic premises that are at the heart of most comics many times over, whether it be from a previous comic or another medium altogether. J & T blend pictures and words together better than just about anyone in the business today, so I am always very excited to see the skill with which each issue is created.
However, I agree with Killer that there is something just slightly off about this mini. I have theories on why that is, and I think I have made them readily apparent in past posts. But to summarize, I am troubled by Blue's similarity to Yellow, along with the episodic nature of the events of the story and the minimal role of Gwen in a story that has her at its heart. Couple this with the fact that these stories are set within stories previously told, and it's not so much that I am troubled by the story being unoriginal, but rather for me it seems a bit repetitive, and I find myself without the deeper involvement I had in previous J&T projects. It's a quaint, well-crafted, likeable story, but beyond that I can't find that intangible that sucks me in and leaves me thirsting for more.
I feel the blend of superhero life and personal life doesn't work as well in Blue as it did in Yellow. I feel that the two aspects are working against each other in Blue, because the love story with Gwen is seperate from Peter's superhero adventures. However, in Yellow, Karen was central to both Matt's personal, professional, and superhero life. For me, that gave Yellow a sense of continuity which Blue just doesn't have. I know VB has argued in the past that the seperate superhero and personal aspects of Peter's life helps emphasize the bad before good idea that is central to this series. It is an excellent point, but regardless of that, I find that emphasizing the point in that way doesn't outweigh the negatives of the fractured way in which the events are presented.
Additionally, while I have never read the runs where Blue, Yellow, (or the upcoming Grey) take place, the fact that all 3 look back at the past with a similar perspective causes immediate comparisons. And while it seemed fresh and inventive with Yellow, a year, and a miniseries later and Blue has lost that flavor. I worry about Grey, because if I feel this way with Blue, I wonder what effect two years and two miniseries will have on my impressions of that mini. I would much prefer if J & T took a break from the "color" books for a bit, and did something more along the lines of what Jeph is doing with Jim Lee over in Batman. Still, I'm looking forward to the conclusion of Blue, and am sure that the two will do good things with Grey as well.
And DeForgeo's two cents ended the conversation: Killer- I haven't read much the original ASM issues, but I'd have to agree with Obi on this one. Blue is hardly my favorite of the Jeph and Tim collaborations, but I think it's the sheer amount of enthusiasm that they put into the story that makes it worthwhile. The whole series seems like a love-letter to the older issues and creators before them.
Issue 6 has been resolicited for February 5.
